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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
Oh and check this one out for the road:

Dear Mrs Freeman Thank you for contacting Western Union. For a non-resident of Nigeria, the only acceptable form of identification is an international passport. In addition, he will also need to confirm the following details regarding the transaction: - Name of the sender- Country of origin- Amount - MTCN If you have any further enquiries, please do not hesitate to contact us at germany.customer@westernunion.de Sincerely,Karen----------------------------Customer Carewww.westernunion.de

Pretty black and white, would you say!


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:33 am
Posts: 123
Yes, pretty black and white.

They gave you the right answer. Problem is that your money was not collected by a non-resident of Nigeria, was it? If you did not know that beforehand, how were they supposed to know? For all they know you could have been sending money to a relative or trusted friend. Are they supposed to question every transfer going to Nigeria? They already give plenty of warning about that.

Also you seem to avoid the issue of a test question and answer. Did you use one or not?

I applaud you for your initiative,tenacity and drive, but these are questions you will be confronted with, so you need to be able to answer these.

Going by a lawyer is one thing, but they are mostly in it for the money. You should also use common sense.

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Excuse me, ma'am. Is your refrigerator running? *gasp* It IS? Well, you better go catch it before it runs away! A-ha! A-ha! A-ha!


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
Oh dear! you must be working for western union...lol...

Doh! why didn't I think about that? give me a break.....

BTW,did you sign Shawn's petition or did you tell her that she was wrong as well and that it was pointless cos Obama has bigger fish to fry than her petition? That might well be the case but she is taking a shot and putting an action together and even if her issue is not my issue, I have signed it to support her like I would support anyone who has a go no matter how outrageous their action might sound. Few years back with my company we served NATO with a law suit, now that is outrageous, isn it? Guess what, it was very very effective. Sometimes, you have to see over and beyond the action itself and as long as you have set yourself the right expectations, you cannot go wrong no matter what the outcome is. Education and awareness is not enough, the stats are the proof of that. I have done my part on that by having my ugly mugg plastered in a UK magazine along with the story. How about you?Every time someone make a step to fight this through whatever action, it puts the issue out. Instead of barking at me for tempting something, you need to remember what this is about and it is irrelevant whether if I win or loose, what matters is that the issue is put on the table and raised.

So how about you turn all the negativity of yours into positive energy that would make you quite dangerous really..lol..How about you try something on your side to educate people instead of constanty telling those who put themselves out there that they are wrong. I think you have many ideas of your own but you are just afraid of taking a shot. Just give me one thing you would love to do to fight this plague... I am aching to hear it..


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:33 am
Posts: 123
Working for Western Union? Not really. That would be a step down from being the Devil's advocate.

No, I did not sign Shawn's petition. Not because I think she is wrong, but because I am not an American. As an outsider I should stay out of their politics.

Sure you have to see over and beyond the action itself, but your expectations have to be realistic. You can go after Yahoo and Hotmail for instance and book some success, but it will mean nothing. Most scammers don't use them anyhow and if they do it will be easy for them to change. So at that point you might win a battle, but you will have no impact on the war.

Since my mug is not ugly I am afraid I can not help in that way either :P

Seriusly, I am not barking at you for trying something and my intention is not to be negative about it. I just think your knowledge on scammers and how they opreate is rather limited and I am trying to make you see that.

I have tried to educate peole, but as a teacher I tend to butt heads to much with the principals at the schools I used to teach. They are rather strict on following their own educational program and do not like people stepping outside the lines.

I do fight this plague. Just in another way.

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Excuse me, ma'am. Is your refrigerator running? *gasp* It IS? Well, you better go catch it before it runs away! A-ha! A-ha! A-ha!


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
I agree with you that scamming will never disappear but i do not pretend to want win this war as you call it. Like you said, expectations have to be realistic. All we can do is to fight it one battle at the time through all the angles. I can only take the part that has touched me, but I will support people like Shawn regardless of whether their issue is similar to mine or not. There are so many different variations of scamming, one can not be knowledgeable about the whole concept but you seem to do so do tell. I am interested.
You say you did not sign Shawn's petition because as a non American you should stay out of their politics, I say you are afraid to go to the front line. Scamming is international and the scammers I am aware of tend to come out of Nigieria, Russia, Malaysia and other countries whilst victims tend to be in the US, UK, and many other western countries. But you know a lot more about scammers than me so for me it is not relevant where the action takes place as long as it take place.
Funny you mention hotmails, I am looking into that as well and if more people challenged these organisations to make the hotmail accounts more secure it would help. It will not solve the whole problem, I am with you on that but put some spanners in the scammers machinery. You seem to want to win the whole war in one clean sweep, I am just aiming one little win at a time.


I am still at lost when it comes to understand your concept about education and scamming so do explain. I really want to understand where you are coming from on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:33 am
Posts: 123
Dahlfi wrote:
I say you are afraid to go to the front line.


That frontline is clearly only created for Americans, so why would I be afraid of something I can not get at in the first place? As a non american there is no option for me to fill it in. Besides that. I hate the way Americans meddle in other people's politics, so I would be a hypocrite if I got involved in theirs.

Making hotmail more secure will not change a thing. It's like thinking that virus protection on your computer makes you safe. Mail meassures against scammers might even help spammers, cause because of spammers there are so many alternative mail options.

I really do not think your actions against WU will put some spanners in the scammers machinery. They have plenty more alternatives.
On the other hand, it might draw enough attention, so it willl educate people a bit in which case you will accomplish something. Just don't expect you will win.

You want to challenge hotmail. Why? They do nothing but provide a service people can use. You should challenge those people who think that organisations like banks, lotteries or whatever use hotmail. They don't! People should be educated on those points. Same as you thought you need an ID to pick up money from WU. Well, you don't. Not always. That is what people should know.

_________________
Excuse me, ma'am. Is your refrigerator running? *gasp* It IS? Well, you better go catch it before it runs away! A-ha! A-ha! A-ha!


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
Hey do not get me wrong here but as a teacher, you need to see through people. I understand everything you are telling me and it does make sense but you also need to open up and try to see the other person aim, perspective and not judge. You tend to judge and for a teacher you have a very agressive style, if you do not mind me saying.

You told me that you tend to headbut with headmasters cos they do not see your point of you. You think outside the box and they do not. Well I am thinking outside the box too, actually built a career on that. Yes, I am outrageous, yes, I have the most exotic ideas, sometimes they work, sometime they do not. For me it is all about the trial and error concept and it works. I truly believe you when you say you know about scammers, the piece I am missing is what do you know? I am still waiting to hear that. I have searched you through this website and I do not know you story to this day all I can say is that it has affected you real bad and that is ok with me. I dealt with my story in my ownway, I guess and you do it your way but at the end, Pennywise, we are trying to do the same thing. When Shawn posted her petition and created this website she meant business and that is why I will support her.


in my eyes, when you fight scamming, you have to leave behind the fact that you are coming from different part of this world cos scamming bare no boundaries but you know that better than me of course. I say politics are a tool which needs to be used to fight scamming in a way that if we want to get regulations on a cross border level, we need to get political and that is why I thought of the UN. What makes scammers so successful right now is that there is no coalition and Nigeria well, we agree, they have no interest in enforcing 419 cos it brings so much USD in the country which scammers spend at internet cafes making yet more vicitms, We are on the same page on that.

You want to educate people and I think you can be very powerfult doing that. Reading between your words and putting aside your aggressive style, I truly belive you can help people but you need to revise your communiation style. Telling people they are wrong or asking questions followed by triple question marks will only rubb them the wrong way and close themselves on your point of you. Like I said before my skin is very thick and I know to step back but a lot of people don t and that is wy it seems that you and i are the only one bouncing off right now on is site. Think about it.

Shawn and I, I guess want to see more legislations and regulations.
All of us want the same thing and if all of us apply our knowledge and skills we can make a difference. I know you do too otherwise you would not bother fighting me, you would be on my side cos we all know this not just about ID and secret question, this is about inside corruption. But you know this better than I of course.

what do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:33 am
Posts: 123
I don't mind you saying. I have always had an agressive style and I know it. For some it works, for others it doesn't, but if go with the flow and be one of the many grey mouses I will not reach anyone.
I have no story. I started out on the other side dealing with scammers and in doing so tried to gather as much knowledge as possible. Because of that I also ended up at victims sites.
Scamming bares no bounderies, but people do. Coming from different parts of the world plays a big role in it. African scammers for one think they have the "right" to scam you. Everyone in the US is rich so they can spare the money. They have no remorse for what they do. In their eyes, if you are stupid enough to fall for what they tell you, you deserve to lose your money. If you get into financial trouble because of that it is your own fault, not theirs. They jusy use an oportunity given and it is not their fault if you are so stupid to believe them.

I am not from the US so my point of view and attitude are also different.
You and I bounce cause we are the only ones here who have the passion and drive to do so.
Sure corruption pays a part in it, but with a secret question they do not even need corruption. Everybody expects corruption, but we make it so easy for them that they not even need to use it.

I think we can learn from eachother, but I am under moderation here. I have to weigh my words, cause I am not looking to get the boot, so free speech isn't easy.

_________________
Excuse me, ma'am. Is your refrigerator running? *gasp* It IS? Well, you better go catch it before it runs away! A-ha! A-ha! A-ha!


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:38 pm 
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Site Admin/Co-Founder

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 2921
Dahlfi wrote:
Shawn, I have signed your petition and I will definitely stick around as long as you will have me. I have a full time job myself so I understand what you mean but this is dear to me and I never ever give up . I see it the same as you do. After I realised that I got scammed, i told myself that I was not going to loose out to a scammer and to make the money back I actually wrote a novel based on this. I have the second one coming out early next year and I am currently writing the third one. So tell you what, we can join forces here and if you can support me with the sale of the novels, I am willing to redeem a portion of the royalties to this site so that we can grow it and promote this cause. It was always my wish that should the novel work to create some kind of trust fund to help victims and support organisation such as the Internet Law Center but why not this site. Fighting these battles requires cash so anything I can do to help this good site of yours would really mean the world to me. I an put the website address at the back of the second book if you want, that will give the site a bit more visibility.

secondly, let's face it I have been strongly beaten on this site cos I wanted to get some alliances for my law suit against WU. I am suing them not because they gave my money to a scammer but because they failed to perform the ID check which gives it a totally new conotation.According to their T & C's they will not pay the money without a photo ID. I am taking a shot as if this works, lots of us can benefit from that action. Once this is done, I want to take some actions with the dating websites, this will not take the form of a law suit but they really need to revise their internal screenings. I do resent the fact that the only comment I got from the website which I was using after reporting the scammers (3 in total) was that 'they knew about the problems but did not know what to do about it' the best one was that in the same breath they said to me 'But, you know, we also have a lots of successful stories', so collateral damage is acceptable I guess.


thirdly, you might want to contact Bennet Kelley. He is the founder of the internet law center and he is the host of radio show called Internet Law and Business Papers if my memory is correct. They talk about the fraud issue and promote newlegislations. That would be a good platform for you to promote your site.


Only by taking group actions will we make changes happen.I beleive in that strongly. Doing nothing and apathy is weakness in my eyes and we are strong people.

Dahlfi


Thank you for signing our petition

What is the title of your book?

When we started this site one of my "long term goals" was to be able to create a fund that would offer victims no interest loans . . . I am always looking for a way to build that fund.

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Shawn Mosch
Co-Founder of http://ScamVictimsUnited.com
There is strength in numbers!

Share your story with the media and educate others about scams! Details here http://scamvictimsunited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=6319
Sign our petition http://www.change.org/actions/view/crea ... s_programs
Follow our blog http://scamvictimsunited.wordpress.com/
Find us on Twitter, Facebook and more http://www.retaggr.com/page/ShawnMosch
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Buy us a coffee to say thanks ~ http://www.scamvictimsunited.com/donations.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
When it comes to scammers, you are not telling me anything I don t already know. They have no fear of doing what they are doing because they know no one will come after them.

You keep bringing up the secret question, well for some countries the secret question is not required and beside even if it was, because of the network scammers have it would not make a difference as this is when the corruption kicks in. It is happening, I have proof of that.

If you want to have the opportunity to share all that knowlege of yours with victims or people who think they are being scammed, you really need to soften your communication style. People have been really hurt through it not only financially but also emotionally so when one realises that they have been made a victim and they find the courage within themselves to go out and ask questions, the last thing they want is a kick in the teeth from you.

I am not sure what you mean by "ending on victim sites" but by the time people end up on victim sites, it is already too late for most of them for education as they have already been done as per say. Education has to be performed with the general public. Personally, I had no clue of scams and scammers until after I realised something was going wrong and I approached the authorities. I am pretty sure that there are many people for whom it happened the very same way.

If you want to use all your knowledge then you need to go out and spread the word not hide behind posts telling people like me that we dont know anything. So how about organizing a cake sell after church on sunday and speak to people about it. That is education, don t you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:33 am 
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Site Admin/Co-Founder

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 2921
Dahlfi wrote:
by the time people end up on victim sites, it is already too late for most of them for education as they have already been done as per say. Education has to be performed with the general public.


You took the words right out of my mouth!!!!! That has been the trouble for YEARS, and one of the main things that needs to change . . . educated BEFORE people get into the situations.

_________________
Shawn Mosch
Co-Founder of http://ScamVictimsUnited.com
There is strength in numbers!

Share your story with the media and educate others about scams! Details here http://scamvictimsunited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=6319
Sign our petition http://www.change.org/actions/view/crea ... s_programs
Follow our blog http://scamvictimsunited.wordpress.com/
Find us on Twitter, Facebook and more http://www.retaggr.com/page/ShawnMosch
_______________________________________________
Has this site helped you?
Buy us a coffee to say thanks ~ http://www.scamvictimsunited.com/donations.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:32 am
Posts: 1
Dahlfi wrote:
Dear All,

If we want to stop the scammers, we need to take away their tools. WU is on of the most precious one.

As victims, we have more chance to win if we get united and that is not just for romance scam victims, I am calling all victims who have lost money through WU.


I got a call yesterday from a caller who claimed to be from Western Union. After I put their number into http://www.tellows.com/ everything was clear - it was a scam call.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
Did you report it to Western Union?


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