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 Post subject: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
Dear All,

I am very proud to say that I am a romance scam victim as well. Although we tend to be pictured in the media as total idiots, we are not stupid just very warm hearted people who trust the system, let alone Western Union. After my scammer confessed to me the deceipt, I thought about the whole thing and realised that Western Union were very much at fault as they have failed to comply to their own protokols. After further digging the story got even worse and I cannot beleive that WU is not aware of what is happening under their own roof, as such I am serving WU with a law suit and I am looking for other victims which would join me in beating some serious social responsability against this giant who is keeping the scammers in business.
I have read many many complaints on WU but I am yet to see them being made accountable. If you are willing to pick on this fight, please let me know. If we want to stop the scammers, we need to take away their tools. WU is on of the most precious one.

As victims, we have more chance to win if we get united and that is not just for romance scam victims, I am calling all victims who have lost money through WU.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:38 am
Posts: 63
Location: England, UK
Dahlfi wrote:
I thought about the whole thing and realised that Western Union were very much at fault as they have failed to comply to their own protokols. After further digging the story got even worse and I cannot beleive that WU is not aware of what is happening under their own roof, as such I am serving WU with a law suit and I am looking for other victims which would join me in beating some serious social responsability against this giant who is keeping the scammers in business.
I have read many many complaints on WU but I am yet to see them being made accountable. If you are willing to pick on this fight, please let me know. If we want to stop the scammers, we need to take away their tools. WU is on of the most precious one.

As victims, we have more chance to win if we get united and that is not just for romance scam victims, I am calling all victims who have lost money through WU.

You are still utterly wrong, no matter how many different forum sections you repeat it on... Stay in one place, posting the same thing in multiple places only makes it harder for people to follow.

Here... just in case you misplaced the earlier thread of yours.

CALLING ALL VICTIMS WHO HAVE BEEN DECEIVED BY WESTERN UNION
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13722

Dahlfi wrote:
we tend to be pictured in the media as total idiots
I am very proud to say that I am a romance scam victim as well.

Proud to be a victim? That is not a club you should wish to join. Maybe you should choose your words more carefully, just to avoid any 'misunderstandings'. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
To Biggles, you have that right and i amnot wrong. Posting in difference places might be an overkill but so are all the "report the scam" websites, they are so many of them, how are victims supposed to handle this, I went to source, went to IC3 and spoke ot FBI agents, I understand that these cases are difficult as they are chasing gosts but in my case, welll that was not exactly it, my friend. I support the work of any agencies who fight this, but I am sorry to say that coalition is needed as this is cross border.Togive you a hint, I am still online actively to two scammers and a third one as well, this one, I want to see him go down but no one is interested. so I tell the FBI that i have one who is ready to be rosted and they ignore me so I keep going and now I have 3. In the meantine, people are getting screwed my friend, cos the money machine operates and that is WU and i cannot believe for one second they are not aware.

Sorry. I enjoy a good debate and please keep challenging me but I can tell you that I have spoken to a prominent lawyer in california about this who lobbies in the white house and he is right behind in my actions so keep them coming it is only making me stronger so that I can give to victims their life back and that is all what they want. My aim is mercenary , meaning, make money for the victims who cannot defend themselves so bring it on. And it is why I like this site. We need to stay united and obviously you are not a victim and nor am i. Victims are by definition hopeless and helpless, I might be hopeless but I am not helpless. Just thin about it

This site is to help victims and get solutions. You are trying to bring me down well I have no emotions frankly because i know what i know and my source are the very people who are causing the pain, ie. the scammers.If you have a beef against sbody, take it with the agencies not the victims such as myself. I have done my mea culpa but I am as cold as the antartic as far of emotions that is why I see clearly, so bring it on. Lay it to victims how stupid they are and I will find the words to show you that it is not that simple,

D




WIth love
Dahlfi


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
[quote="Biggles"][quote="Dahlfi"]

Thanks Biggles and to clarify the 'I am proud to be a victim' part to you, this comes from the fact that fraud agencies want to encourage for people who have been scammed to come forward. Lots of people who have been a victim of a scam especially the romance type one feel very ashamed and do not file a report. I can safely say that when I see sometimes postings which are made to victims, I am hardly surprised, however, if more people share their experiences, more information is being collected by the anti fraud agencies. Scammers are getting smarter all the times and they see as much as the next person what is being posted against scamms so they constantly find news to get around the systems and stay ahead. I am not ashamed of calling myself a victim and want to do my upmost to support the war against scamming.

Btw, if I may ask, what were the reasons for you to join this site?


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:26 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:33 am
Posts: 123
You are not proud to be a victim. No one is proud to be a victim. If you really were you would welcome to be victimized again and you are not. You are proud that you do not let it get to you and are willing to fight back.

Biggles is not trying to bring you down, but trying to make you see sense. Western Union does exactly what you ask from them to do. They deliver your money there where you want it. All they do is provide a service. Same as your bank does when you transfer your rent for instance. All they need to do is make sure the money ends up in the right place, or do you expect them to check if the rent you pay is not to much?

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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
[quote="Pennywise"]

Well that is the point of me doing this, WU did not do what they were supposed to do. The beauty of it is that the fact that the money went to a scammer is somewhat even irrelevant to my plea. However, it isvery clause to the issue with scamming. At first glance, you and biggles are assuming my approach but whatever approach you think I am taking here or whatever arguments I have for doing this, I have not put down in black and white as per say but you are actually raising the issue in your own email.

When it comes to fight scammers and scamming, all I have seen so far is victims being told to report the scamms through various channels. From time to time, you see an article in the papers or a report on the news but where are the concrete actions and the solutions and what are the solutions?

I am taking a different approach here to find out the cracks through the systems which the scammers are using to prolifer so that real solutions can be put in place. Bringing out awareness is a start but despite all of the websites and information readily available, scammers are scamming harder than ever and in mutiple new ways cos they can. More information comes out in the news, cleverer the scammers get cos they can and they are in the know. Just think about it


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Site Admin/Co-Founder

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 2921
Okay . . . have to step in . . .

I agree that we need to keep this in ONE THREAD and not post it to several places

I personally don't know if I would use the words "proud to be a victim" about myself, and I started this website, but I do feel that as victims we DO have to speak out about this problem to bring attention to it and help save others from becoming victims. I would love to see our "club" of victims stop growing.

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Shawn Mosch
Co-Founder of http://ScamVictimsUnited.com
There is strength in numbers!

Share your story with the media and educate others about scams! Details here http://scamvictimsunited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=6319
Sign our petition http://www.change.org/actions/view/crea ... s_programs
Follow our blog http://scamvictimsunited.wordpress.com/
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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
[quote="admin"]
When I wrote "Proud to be a victim", I knew I would be throwing a stone in the soup but I truly feel that a shake up is needed. Three months or so ago, a survey was released in the UK press stating that over 200,000 Britains had fallen for dating scamsd. It was all over the press and the television. The whole media release was in my views very counterproductive as it portrayed the victimes in a such way that instead of people being encouraged to speak out, it did the opposite. As the articles were posted on various news websites, the comments that came back from Joe Public went against the victims. My favorite one was "Gives us 50 bucks Luv!"

Unless you are a victim yourself, the perception that has been put out there is that victimes are total idiots. The only poor people who had the courage to speak out were simple, warm people, I am yet to see a scholar, a banker or a lawyer standing in front of a camera saying they had been done. Why? it would hurt their credibility but they have been caught as well.

If we want more victims to speak out, the image that the press makes of them needs to be changed, let alone the way the authorities handle them as well. When I reported the scam, I was patronized and told to get a lawyer.

There is a lot of work to be done here to give confidence to people to come forward further more after all this time, there are still no solutions offered to victims or hard actions which shows why it is important that one does not feel ashamed but can help out by sharing.

If you want this "club" to grow you need to give a motivation to people why they should join this website .


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:24 am 
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Site Admin/Co-Founder

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 2921
Trust me, I know what you mean about people blaming the victim . . . I have been running this site and speaking about scams for 10 years now (WOW . . . it has been 10 years!!!) I have heard all of the "blame the victim" comments, but I kept talking about it and encouraging other victims to do so also. One thing I ALWAYS say to those that say scam victims are "stupid" is that I feel the only "stupid" thing I did was to trust my bank when they told me the check was good, clear, verified and there would be no problems. If you read my story, http://scamvictimsunited.com/our_story.htm, you will see that we did NOT trust the person we were selling our car to, but we DID trust our bank who I had been banking with for over 15 years at that point. I asked them point blank "Is this check good? Will it ever come back and bite me in the butt?"

And I think it depends on the press . . . some will make it sound like the victim is stupid, and others will really look at the problems and issues . . . the fact that the bank can legally tell you the check is good, verified and clear before it has gone through the full clearing process . . . the fact that money transfers can be picked up in ANY location if you have the right info, and not just the location indicated on the wire transfer form.

I agree, there is a lot of work to convince people to come forward, but there is even MORE work to do to convince the law makers to change the laws to close the loopholes that the scammers use to make the scams so successful.

_________________
Shawn Mosch
Co-Founder of http://ScamVictimsUnited.com
There is strength in numbers!

Share your story with the media and educate others about scams! Details here http://scamvictimsunited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=6319
Sign our petition http://www.change.org/actions/view/crea ... s_programs
Follow our blog http://scamvictimsunited.wordpress.com/
Find us on Twitter, Facebook and more http://www.retaggr.com/page/ShawnMosch
_______________________________________________
Has this site helped you?
Buy us a coffee to say thanks ~ http://www.scamvictimsunited.com/donations.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
Quote:
[color=#4040BF]I agree, there is a lot of work to convince people to come forward, but there is even MORE work to do to convince the law makers to change the laws to close the loopholes that the scammers use to make the scams so successful[/color]


I like that very very much and that is EXACTLY my angle. 10Years! it is even worse than I thought, I have been collecting data for 2 years. For me, the only way to mitigate this is is by having 3 components working together:

Technology, Legislations and Politics

Closing the loopholes as you put it is for me the only way this is going to be mitigated as I do not believe that scamming will ever go away. All we can hope is by tightening the controls and forcing corporations to adhere to their own rules which they currently do not or just do not enforce in hope of throwing a nasty spanner in the scammers machineries in the process.
Last week I put a question to Yahoo, asking them what was the view of the Yahoo corporation on the fact that scammers are using their hotmail services to create emails account under fake identities and what measures are they taking towards the fact that their platform is being used to committ fraud. I will be interested to see what they come back with? This is hardly new and scammers are still using hotmails as one of their main tools to access victims. (10 years! that is what you have said)
To their defence, they do give an option as per one can ask to whom an email account is registered to but as we all know when it comes to scammers, what is behind their profile is nothing but thin air, it is not that helpful.

And this is my approach, going through all the platform and means my scammer has used to put his scam together and challenging them one after the other. Everyone needs to do the same to pressure these corporations to adhere to the terms which they have defined themselves and posted on their own websites. I am not asking them to bring more controls for now or do anything new, I am asking them to do what they have put in black and white themselves.

A couple of month ago, I contacted a news channel in the US to see if they would take on the issue with a new spin. I was told"Oh Yeah, we did a couple stories on this already and people should know better by now'So for the media, it is very much a case o been there done that, ...old news..., that is why a brand new angle needs to be given to this issue as it is only growing despite all the warnings and there is an explanation for that I guess. Someone on this forum told me that scamming was just a petty crime, well when we look at the stats, this is might still be qualified as a petty crime but it is one that is growing day by day and has gone international so it deserves a little bit more attention in my books.
I have looked at lots of forum on "report the scam", "I have been scammed" and so on and so forth and until I have joinged this one had refrained to do so as they more or less do all the same things and say nothing different from one to the other so I did not see the point. What attracted me to this one, is the word "United" because unless there is a coalition made, actions are hard to take as a single individual. A coalition needs to happen between victims and also between all the agencies as there in my views too many of them activily working the program as islands.

When I beleive in something, I never back down, and I believe that more legislations are needed, I believe that the law and govt agencies should form some coaltion as well this is an internationtial issue, so I thank you for your words.

With this site, you have the tool to bring people together and put some actions, and those actions might be successful or they might not,but the worse thing we could do is do nothing because we are too busy pointing out to each other why such agency cannot influence or such action is pointless. To me, the key is to take a shot and see what happens... If you want more victims to join this 'club', you need to drive this issue with a new dynamic in my views, and those who have joined this website need to be active in the process but I guess it is a personal opinion which might be shared. That will not stop me to support any actions which might bring the issue forward.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 412
Location: Third Rock from the Sun
Quote:
With this site, you have the tool to bring people together and put some actions, and those actions might be successful or they might not,but the worse thing we could do is do nothing because we are too busy pointing out to each other why such agency cannot influence or such action is pointless. To me, the key is to take a shot and see what happens... If you want more victims to join this 'club', you need to drive this issue with a new dynamic in my views, and those who have joined this website need to be active in the process but I guess it is a personal opinion which might be shared. That will not stop me to support any actions which might bring the issue forward.


If you have not yet done so, you may want to sign Shawn's petetion. The link is in her siggy.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:37 pm 
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Site Admin/Co-Founder

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 2921
Dahlfi . . . I typed up a whole long message and then my computer went wacky and I lost it . . . here is the short version

I wish I had more hours to spend fighting this battle, since I know that would mean more progress, but scam fighting does not pay the bills and my husband and I pay for this site out of our own pockets. If you have ideas I am willing to listen, especially if you are willing to stick around and help us in seeing those ideas through.

_________________
Shawn Mosch
Co-Founder of http://ScamVictimsUnited.com
There is strength in numbers!

Share your story with the media and educate others about scams! Details here http://scamvictimsunited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=6319
Sign our petition http://www.change.org/actions/view/crea ... s_programs
Follow our blog http://scamvictimsunited.wordpress.com/
Find us on Twitter, Facebook and more http://www.retaggr.com/page/ShawnMosch
_______________________________________________
Has this site helped you?
Buy us a coffee to say thanks ~ http://www.scamvictimsunited.com/donations.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
Shawn, I have signed your petition and I will definitely stick around as long as you will have me. I have a full time job myself so I understand what you mean but this is dear to me and I never ever give up . I see it the same as you do. After I realised that I got scammed, i told myself that I was not going to loose out to a scammer and to make the money back I actually wrote a novel based on this. I have the second one coming out early next year and I am currently writing the third one. So tell you what, we can join forces here and if you can support me with the sale of the novels, I am willing to redeem a portion of the royalties to this site so that we can grow it and promote this cause. It was always my wish that should the novel work to create some kind of trust fund to help victims and support organisation such as the Internet Law Center but why not this site. Fighting these battles requires cash so anything I can do to help this good site of yours would really mean the world to me. I an put the website address at the back of the second book if you want, that will give the site a bit more visibility.

secondly, let's face it I have been strongly beaten on this site cos I wanted to get some alliances for my law suit against WU. I am suing them not because they gave my money to a scammer but because they failed to perform the ID check which gives it a totally new conotation.According to their T & C's they will not pay the money without a photo ID. I am taking a shot as if this works, lots of us can benefit from that action. Once this is done, I want to take some actions with the dating websites, this will not take the form of a law suit but they really need to revise their internal screenings. I do resent the fact that the only comment I got from the website which I was using after reporting the scammers (3 in total) was that 'they knew about the problems but did not know what to do about it' the best one was that in the same breath they said to me 'But, you know, we also have a lots of successful stories', so collateral damage is acceptable I guess.


thirdly, you might want to contact Bennet Kelley. He is the founder of the internet law center and he is the host of radio show called Internet Law and Business Papers if my memory is correct. They talk about the fraud issue and promote newlegislations. That would be a good platform for you to promote your site.


Only by taking group actions will we make changes happen.I beleive in that strongly. Doing nothing and apathy is weakness in my eyes and we are strong people.

Dahlfi


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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:33 am
Posts: 123
Dahlfi wrote:
I am suing them not because they gave my money to a scammer but because they failed to perform the ID check which gives it a totally new conotation.According to their T & C's they will not pay the money without a photo ID.


You are wrong there. They also offer to send money to people that do not have a photo ID. For that they use a test question and answer and I bet your scammer had you do just that. Apart from that, you can not prove they failed to do the check. You can assume they did and are probably 100% right, but that is no prove.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Unions party to the scammers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 60
Check this one out for the road (I thought that i sent this post but it seems to have vanished so I am sending it again)

Straight out of the horse's mouth:

Dear Mrs Freeman Thank you for contacting Western Union. For a non-resident of Nigeria, the only acceptable form of identification is an international passport. In addition, he will also need to confirm the following details regarding the transaction: - Name of the sender- Country of origin- Amount - MTCN If you have any further enquiries, please do not hesitate to contact us at germany.customer@westernunion.de Sincerely,Karen----------------------------Customer Carewww.westernunion.de

That is music to my ears...

I could also add the fact that I asked them to track a transaction which I had made to the UK and they were unable to locate it.Shame, when I have a hard ticket in my hand which tells me otherwise....I wander what their regulators would say on their audit trail weaknesses..but that is for another time.

Furthermore I had the back of the Tickets examined by a lawyer and they failed. Point blank.


Last edited by Dahlfi on Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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