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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:57 am 
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Posts: 7
atarigirl wrote:
I saw the same letter, I have a friend that invested over 5 years ago and he has done very very well. I have only been in for a little over a year and have always received my payments on time. If this is a scam then how come no one has any official complaints, I know all about Nick going to jail, it was discovered when the past threads on fat wallet were posted. When I found out about the jail time, I too was going to pull out my $. That is what some people did, but the truth is he did do his time. He answered all of my ?'s and I feel comfortable leaving my $ in there. I only put in $ I didn't need and I have made all of it back in interest payments. They basically payed for about 18 months worth of my luxury leased car and even the insurance and then some. What I want to hear is not that this is a scam, beware or explanations on why it could be a scam, but I want to hear someone say, that they didn't get paid or even that their cousin didn't get paid. I know of someone that also invested in this contract and received this letter. Why didn't it happen to me? Why didn't Nick just send it to everyone, that loan was not as big as the one I was in. Look, many people tell me I am crazy but I am a very smart individual, if I lose what I've invested, it won't really be a loss will it? I've made $ on my initial investment plus even the $ taxes I will be charged by the IRS. I know people who can lose a lot because they have invested a lot, but have also made a lot. I have had this guy and this company investigated to the last hair on his head with every accountant, financial person, friends who are editors of financial magazines etc. Yes there is a risk, but there always will be with interest rates this high. Don't you think that everyone would do it if it was 100%? But I heard that for the upcoming contracts they are now offering insurance on your $ and your interests all insured by a seperate company. For example if you invest 10k and receive 11 to 12% interest back the insurance company will secure your money for about 3 or 4% of it, high but your money is guaranteed. You might not get the $1200 back every time a contract is over but you'll have around $700, a steep amount just to secure it but hey around 7% is still a lot. I am not sure of the $fees charged by the insurance company but I am sure it is around this much. Also if you don't feel comfortable with this then my advice is do not invest or pull your $ out. No one is stopping you. You can always pull out if the contract is over and if it is currently going on then pull out and just lose some of your $. You can be greedy and leave it in there or if you're paranoid then use the insurance or take your $ out. This is like legal loan sharks. I mean think about it if they are lending out at 25%, what's so weird about giving us the little people 10-12% back? They are the ones doing all the work and they're making 12-15% back as well. At the end of the day, the reality is you got to be in it to win, You can buy 10,000 $1 lotto tickets and might not win a single dollar or you might win a little, even big. Not such a great analogy but I am sick of my old 2% at chase. If I would have invested just 10k about 4 years ago I would already have made over 150 thousand. I want to hear facts not what people think might happen, but if you're going to write stories here about why it doesn't seem real or why it can't work then don't, What I need to hear to really listen is Who didn't it work for? Bad experiences with Agape, This company has been around for almost 10 years and no one had 1 complaint??? Even by word of mouth? Not even a lie of someone saying that they didn't get paid. Never heard of a Pyramid being around for 10 years! Guess there is always a first, Whatever, the truth is if I lose my initial investment, lesson learned. I would never play with $ I rely on to live with, nor should anyone. Gamble what you think you could lose, in the long run I will still be okay with it because not only have I made all of my $ back but I went in knowing that nothing is 100% guaranteed in life but I was sick of not taking risks and watching everyone get rich and make $ and just sitting on my $.


atarigirl after reading your very long post, there are only 3 main points in it:
1. If Agape World is a scam, how come there has not been any individual who didn't get paid and the company has been around for almost 10 years?

The answer to your question is quite simple, it's because Agape World is a ponzi scheme that has not been revealed (yet). In a ponzi scheme, everyone losses money at the end when the scheme is revealed as a scam. I am sure by now you have heard of the Bernard Madoff news, and it definitely proved that a ponzi scheme can be run for a very long time without being revealed as a scam (Madoff ran it for more than 10 years). And during all those years, no one complained of not being paid, not a single one, and we are talking about the "not-so-average" investors here (exteremely wealthy individuals, fund managers, bank officials, etc).

2. You are currently investing with house money as you have made back all of your initial investment in interest payments.

You should still be concerned because as tmp70 has pointed out, you might need to reach into your pocket to give back profits or even some of the initial investments later when Agape is revealed. I also read this in Wall Street Journal, so it's not a hoax.

3. You seemed to feel that everyone is trying to persuade you to stop investing at Agape.

I am posting this to persuade people, who haven't invested in Agape and are considering, not to invest. Agape World is a scam. It will collapse, and it's only a matter of time. I hate to say a cliche, but if it's too good to be true, it probably is. Spread the knowledge about Agape World !

I hope the mod/admin does not lock this thread as it will help in warning the people about the Agape World scam.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:16 am
Posts: 7
MD1438 wrote:
It is very rare for a Ponzi scam to last 9 years especially with all the attention Agape World Inc has received. They were listed in Entrapanuer Magazine s top 100 companies. They are also members of Dun and Bradstreet and the prestegious Commercial Finance Association. The company has no complaints from the NYS Attorney General Office and I have never heard or read of any investor complaints. I have been to their office and have met with Nicholas Cosmo myself and he answered all my questions in a detailed and professional manner.


By now we can safely conclude that a ponzi scheme can be run for more that 10 years in a high profile environment. Bernard Madoff has way more cred than Nick Cosmo, and still he's a con artist after all. No investors complained to Madoff until the fund actually collaped. And interestingly, I read that some of the investors are actually his golf buddies, WOW!


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:44 am 
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Posts: 7
duke42 wrote:
Meat Curtains - how do you explain this going on for 9 years???? That is a hell of a run for a ponzi scheme. Why also would this guy draw so much attention to himself with Entrepenuer Magazine, etc? Why would he make himself available to investors and potential investors to ask whatever questions you want to ask of him. Why does agape come up clean in every search of BBB, D&B, etc? Why do they issue 1099's? Why, why, why if this is a ponzi??? Hopefully you are the idiot for not investing. Maybe in the end you will turn out right (i sure as hell hope not). All I am saying is the guy has been good by me (and many others), the company has done good by me (and many others). There has been a lot of speculating by you and others on these threads. I am going off actual experience. To each his own, everyone has to make their own decisions. You could've invested in a stock like AIG and lost everything or played it safe and got a few points in a CD, so far Agape has been by far my best investment.


Meatcurtains wouldn't be able to explain how Agape managed to survive for 9 years because he/she didn't spend 10 months in jail doing nothing like Cosmo did (it's a fact!). You should direct your question to Mr. Madoff as he had first hand experience in doing exactly that.

Cosmo tried to draw much attention through the Entreprenuer Magazine exactly for moments like this one, so fools like you can quote it to defend him.

Cosmo made himself available because that's what con artist does, if he didn't make himself available to you and the others, you and the others are not going to trust him and invest in Agape because you would believe what meatcurtains and countless others are saying: Agape World is a ponzi scheme.

Why does agape come up clean in every search of BBB, D&B, etc? The authority missed on Charles Ponzi, Reed Slatkin, James Paul Lewis Jr. and Bernard Madoff. If I have to guess, it's because the great ones (con artist) have a tendency to slip past the regulators. That's why they are greats !

Agape can not be classified into the same class as AIG nor CDs, it's in a league of its own: High Rewards, Definitely a Scam ( no risks there as it is definite).

I hope you invested in Agape using an alias, as when it collapes and it definitely will anytime soon, you wouln't want the feds to know that you even exist. And by that time, I think meatcurtains wouldn't mind being labeled as an idiot.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:46 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:37 pm
Posts: 5
I haven't been on this site in a couple of weeks and looks like I missed a bunch of activity. Meatcurtains - you say it has been 8 years since they started in 2000. We are 2 weeks away from 2009, I say it has been 9 years. Maybe it has been 8 years and 309 days. Who cares. Don't tell me to check facts on something this petty. ATMClick - welcome to the posts. It is easy to come on now after Madoff announcement and bash Nick and Agape. A guy like Madoff was able to scam brilliant investors, politicians, etc. Is Nick capable of doing the same to less astute investors (including myself)? The answer is Yes. It has appeared as though I have defended Agape and Nick up to this point. Bottom line - investing in anything today has risks. Are you the type of person that can walk into a casino and throw some money down on red? Than an investment like Agape maybe for you. Are you the type of person that needs a guarantee like a CD? Than an investment like Agape is probably not for you. I personally am glad I am diversified. My stock portfolio is down 50%. I am glad I have some investments like Agape that helped balanced things out a little. As I said in previous posts to each his own. The reason I started posting was I felt the doubters were unjust and non factual in calling Agape and Nick a Scam. I still feel it is unjust to call them a scam. Do I have all the evidence in the world to soothe the doubters? No, but that is not what I am trying to do. Nobody knows for sure about anything. I only need to convince myself and hopefully in the end I prove right......


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 29
There are so many clear signals as to what the truth is. Look at the facts and draw your own opinion but the ending is all ready written. I know the outcome as sure as I know the sun will rise tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:27 pm
Posts: 36
duke42 wrote:
I haven't been on this site in a couple of weeks and looks like I missed a bunch of activity. Meatcurtains - you say it has been 8 years since they started in 2000. We are 2 weeks away from 2009, I say it has been 9 years. Maybe it has been 8 years and 309 days. Who cares. Don't tell me to check facts on something this petty. ATMClick - welcome to the posts. It is easy to come on now after Madoff announcement and bash Nick and Agape. A guy like Madoff was able to scam brilliant investors, politicians, etc. Is Nick capable of doing the same to less astute investors (including myself)? The answer is Yes. It has appeared as though I have defended Agape and Nick up to this point. Bottom line - investing in anything today has risks. Are you the type of person that can walk into a casino and throw some money down on red? Than an investment like Agape maybe for you. Are you the type of person that needs a guarantee like a CD? Than an investment like Agape is probably not for you. I personally am glad I am diversified. My stock portfolio is down 50%. I am glad I have some investments like Agape that helped balanced things out a little. As I said in previous posts to each his own. The reason I started posting was I felt the doubters were unjust and non factual in calling Agape and Nick a Scam. I still feel it is unjust to call them a scam. Do I have all the evidence in the world to soothe the doubters? No, but that is not what I am trying to do. Nobody knows for sure about anything. I only need to convince myself and hopefully in the end I prove right......


Duke - Agape was incorporated in NYS in Aug of 2000. So, that would be 8 years and roughly 2 months. Petty? Maybe. But an outright lie on the Agape website that is documented as such...and nobody takes the time to correct that. A serious dent in credibility in my opinion. Why would they KNOWINGLY put on their web-site that they are a private bridge lender since 1999??? If it's so petty, why not fix this?

As for playing Agape loans like a casino bet, this analogy doesn't work when Agape claims to only risk 1% of your investment - whereas a casino bet is 100% risk.

I agree with that new ATM commenter - this forum has significant importance in helping potential investors make informed decisions before investing with Agape.

The people that keep mentioning the 9-10 years in business, people being paid on time, D&B reports, BBB, Entreprenuer Mag, etc - haven't done their homework. This is the EXACT playbook for a ponzi scheme. How about directing your attention to the lack of transparency for audits on the loans?

I'm starting to think that most of the people involved are doing so knowing that they are involved in a pyramid...and just don't care. They got in early and have most of the principals back already...they may be close friends with a rep and feel that they are close enough to pull out quickly if they detect a collapse. Regardless, I find it hard to believe that everyone there is blind...they are willingly particpating in a criminal enterprise to feed their greed - believing that their ignorance will protect them from any legal fallout.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:03 am
Posts: 54
meatcurtains comment about lack of transparency takes me back to what i posted last week. Why does agape not provide any official account statements with investor balances? I've never been in any situation (bank deposits, school loans, stock accounts, credit cards) where account activity, balances, debits, credits, interest activity was not detailed line by line in an official statement. Why did they stop notorizing contracts. Speaking of contracts, why are the contracts detailed with very little information?


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 7
FYI It may seem that no one is interested in Agape World but I have now seen first hand the Dept of Justice out of Brooklyn is looking into this company....thanks to his newest criminal friend Richard Ottimo from Speranza....it is just a matter of time for all of them! Who's going to jail first...Richard or Nick, maybe they will share a cell!


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:34 pm
Posts: 4
Think of all the Madoff investors who are killing themselves over Red Flags that were out there but left their money in. Read any article on the web about Madoff and substitute "Madoff Investments" with "Agape" and "Bernard Madoff" with "Nick Cosmo" and "1%" with "4%". It's the same story all over again. At least Cosmo has jail-time experience so the transition period for him will be rather smooth.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:37 pm
Posts: 5
I related investing in a company like Agape to a casino bet because nothing is 100% guarantee. The 1% risk is in the event a loan defaults. If Agape goes under wouldn't you stand to lose everything as you would if you invested in Ford, Chrysler or GM? D&B has them incorporated in 2000. The website states lending since 1999, maybe the process began then? Who knows. Dates are irrelevant right now. I think Madoff proved a ponzi CAN last a long time..... that doesn't mean that Agape is a scam. I don't think they do statements for the bridge because each contract is its own deal/statement. If you invest x amount of money for x amount of days and has maturity date x then what do you need a statement for? Everything is right in the contract. When it matures you either roll money to the next one or pull money and start with that amount in the next one. The next contract becomes its own deal. The merchant investment has online statements because it is structured differently in my opinion. I am hearing that they are going to an annual contract vs contract to contract for next year. I take this as smart business practice and something they probably should have done from the beginning. Now they will know the base of money they have to lend for 2009. I also hear there will be online statements, full disclosure on Agape and its loans, and insurance from a real insurance company with statements payable directly to the insurance company. The World Economy collapsed. People got scared and are pulling back their money. The Madoff scam was exposed with people pulling out. I believe people have been pulling out of Agape for economic reasons as well and maybe more so after hearing about Madoff. This is why they are re-inventing themselves. They could be running and hiding but they are not. Time will tell all about Agape. Some of you people have the guy going to jail already without factual evidence which is what will cause the moderator to shut this down as others have. Let's please use this post for REAL EXPERIENCES not SPECULATION. That is what will help disclose the truth if there is something to disclose. BTW has anyone gone to the forums Nick is supposedly hosting? Just curious how they were going. Real experiences help.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:03 am
Posts: 54
duke...first, thank you for your posts, I find them helpful. However, why after 9 years is Agape deciding to take the full disclosure route? Now after 9 years they will be having online statements to view activity. To mean it feels like continued attempt to keep money circulating in this company. Any insight???


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:19 pm
Posts: 18
People on this site are trying to compare Agape World Inc to the Madoff Ponzi scam and it is groundless. Agape is a private company and does not have to offer full disclosure. Private equity firms and hedge funds act the same way. Every investment has a level of risk. I am not denying that they have some delayed loans. The company is giving the investors more transparency, information, and insurance than ever before due to the Madoff incident. Their is a worldwide credit crisis and that is the reason for the delayed loans. They had a delayed loan after the tragedy of 9-11-01 and it was paid. When the credit markets loosen up the loans will be paid off. If the loans are not paid, Agape will take properties that are put up as collateral. The investors will be paid off after the sale of the property. If investors want to pull out, that is their decision. The site should only contain factual information or it will be shut down. Please, for everyone s sake let s stick to the facts.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:45 pm
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Although Agape World is a private company, it most certainly is subject to full disclosure requirements when it sells securities to its "investors" as required by the securities laws, just like hedge funds and private equity funds, unless it qualifies for exemptions from registration and disclosure, for which Agape does not qualify. Indeed, a comparison between Agape and the Madoff situation may be "groundless", apart from the size and scope, not because the nature of the activities of both suggest a ponzi scheme,which it does, but because at least the Madoff fraud was conducted, in part, through a registered broker-dealer, which may provide some recourse to the defrauded investors through SIPIC; Agape is unregistered and in violation of securities laws and therefore provides no SIPIC protection.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:15 am 
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Posts: 7
duke42 wrote:
ATMClick - welcome to the posts. It is easy to come on now after Madoff announcement and bash Nick and Agape. A guy like Madoff was able to scam brilliant investors, politicians, etc. Is Nick capable of doing the same to less astute investors (including myself)? The answer is Yes. It has appeared as though I have defended Agape and Nick up to this point. Bottom line - investing in anything today has risks. Are you the type of person that can walk into a casino and throw some money down on red? Than an investment like Agape maybe for you. Are you the type of person that needs a guarantee like a CD? Than an investment like Agape is probably not for you. I personally am glad I am diversified. My stock portfolio is down 50%. I am glad I have some investments like Agape that helped balanced things out a little. As I said in previous posts to each his own. The reason I started posting was I felt the doubters were unjust and non factual in calling Agape and Nick a Scam. I still feel it is unjust to call them a scam. Do I have all the evidence in the world to soothe the doubters? No, but that is not what I am trying to do. Nobody knows for sure about anything. I only need to convince myself and hopefully in the end I prove right......


The reason I'm using the Madoff announcement is because a lot of Agape Investors/Proponents/Shills have been using the company's existence (9 years) and the fact that Cosmo isn't affraid to be shed in the spotlight (Entrepreneur Magazine) as an argument to say that " There is no way Agape World is a ponzi scheme". When in fact, there are many ponzi schemes that lasted as long as Madoff Investment, and even more in some cases. And the brain behind these schemes were not afraid to be in the spotlight, actually, they are at the very front of the sales force that try to recruit investors. It's a requirement in order to run a successful ponzi scheme. I could have used other examples but those are yesterday's news. Madoff investment serves as a good recent example of how brilliant a ponzi scheme could be.

You and other Agape investors should keep doing what you're doing with your money, but there are people that haven't invested in Agape and are considering. I am sure our discussions will help them decide whether Agape is worth investing or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:16 am
Posts: 7
For the people who are interested in investing in Agape World

Beware of shills !!!!

shill: a decoy who acts as an enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of others

Agape World is definitely using shills to promote their scam. Below is an example. This one was posted on Fat Wallet,
they sound like those typical email scams or fake testimonials that companies use to sell their products in the web.
And yes, usually they will say that they are not shills at the very begining, but they are !!!

Agape Shill wrote:
I'm tired of reading all the negative posts on her abut Agape....This is my story...Let me first say that
I am a suspicious, paranoid, and skeptical person by nature and not some shill for Agape or a gambler by nature. (STRIKE 1, both are lies, as you read on you'll see that he is indeed a gambler and a shill)
I'm an average guy with a family who goes to work every day. For the past 4-5 years I was convinced this was a
scam ( to good to be true) and sat on the sidelines as my friends and neighbors built and renovated multi million
dollar houses
, bought new cars, second homes and generally upgrade their lifestyle as a result of investing with Agape.(STRIKE 2, dangling a carrot, an average joe who happens to have neighbors with multimillion dollar houses, cars, and second homes, he forgot to add the yacht) After watching my stock portfolio go up and down for years i decided to take a chance with Agape.
I sold all my equities a year ago and put it all info Agape. I was completely aware of Nicks past indiscretions before investing
through a friend at the SEC. (Told you he's a gambler! Sold ALL his equities to put into Agape)

Before i invested $225,000 with Agape I met with Nick Cosmo and was impressed by the fact there was no high
pressure sales tactics and the fact that (this sounds silly) Nick has no door on his office. It struck me that
someone who has something to hide or is involved with something fraudulent would as least have a door on their
office. (STRIKE 3! OUT!! Talking Nick Cosmo up, are you kidding me?? Can someone that has been to Agape Office confirm this please, please! It sounds like someone is desperate to show people that he's not a fraud.)

In one year i am in an equity position (as are all my friends) with Agape and now realizing returns with their
money.. everyone says this is scam but no one can produce someone who has actually lost money...one of my greatest
regrets is not investing sooner. My feeling is the if Agape can survive the recent financial meltdown they can
survive anything. I will be investing additional funds soon...(This shill is definitely on his first day of the job, "if Agape can survive the recent financial meltdown they can survive anything" :lol: tooo corny, the guy is upping his bet, definitely a chronic gambler )



Seriously, copy and paste the above paragraph, delete all my comments and tell me if that doesn't sound like a cheap fake testimonials, it's an obvious sales pitch by Agape shills. It's either that or someone is just poking fun at all the doubters, either way I found it very entertaining.


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