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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:03 am
Posts: 54
Fact: I am currently involved in the Carriage loan. I find it interesting that someone mentioned the payout is expected January 27th. That information was never given to me by my Agape rep. I was told, not more than 24 hours ago that it was maturing on time and my check would be sent within 2 weeks.

Does anyone else in Agape find it interesting that account statements are never sent to investors? No official statements showing account balances?


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 29
Investor07 wrote:

Does anyone else in Agape find it interesting that account statements are never sent to investors? No official statements showing account balances?


Intersting wouldn't be the word I would use - alarming, suspicious, concerning would be my choice of words.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 29
Has everyone seen this news:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,465848,00.html

The former head of Nasdaq ran a $50 billion ponzi shceme. "he had for years been paying returns to certain investors out of the principal received from other, different, investors," These were sophiscated institutional investors that were fooled.

Theoritetically speaking, if the head of Nasdaq can pull this off for billions of dollars from institutuional investors is is possible a convicted felon can pull it off on a smaller scale duping individual investors?


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:03 am
Posts: 54
Prophet: I agree that the ponzi scam that was just uncovered with the Nasdaq guy should be an eye opener to people that make arguements that Agape must be legit because its been going on for years. The fact is, the industry is regulated relatively poorly.

For example: The Nymex (the largest energy exchange) unknowingly invested over 30 million in an electronic brokerage company who's founder was a two time convicted felon. The owner is waiting trial for market maniplulation and faces a third felony.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 29
Here is another article on the Madoff scam:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081212/bs_nm/us_madoff_4

In a Ponzi scheme, the swindler uses money from new investors, who are lured with the promise of high or consistent returns, to pay off earlier investors.

Prior to Madoff's arrest, investors had wondered how he was able to generate annual returns in the low double digits in a variety of market environments.

"Many of us questioned how that strategy could generate those kinds of returns so consistently," said Jon Najarian, an options trader who knows Madoff and is a co-founder of optionmonster.com.

U.S. stocks tumbled Friday after talks in Congress on a rescue for the nation's auto industry broke down, but some investors also cited unease about the Madoff collapse.

"It raises the question is this a one-off deal, or in the kind of market environment we have, is the SEC going to uncover more shady investments?" said Fred Dickson, market strategist, director of retail research, D.A. Davidson & Co. in Lake Oswego, Oregon


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:03 am
Posts: 54
I think this uncovering will have many agape investors questioning the legitimacy of Agape's operations. Regardless of whether it is legitimate or not, given the recent economic environment and this ponzi scheme revelation, agape investors might be willing to except less risk and begin pulling their funds for more safe investments. If its a ponzi scam, it could fall apart. If its legit, it would be bad for the company also. Either way investor money could be at much higher risk.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:21 am
Posts: 2
has anyone researched securities act 1933 Regulation D
sounds like this is a security a promissory note that wasnt registered
check out sec.gov edgar filings for registrations its not there and doesnt sound like meets exemptions


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:45 pm
Posts: 20
What "investors" have been sold are most certainly unregistered loan participations that have been sold in violation of the securities laws. They were also sold without the required disclosures which would have included detailed financials on Agape and/or the borrowers to whom the investors money was purportedly lent.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:23 pm
Posts: 11
tmp70 what does all that mean are you saying investors money are not being lent out to actual companies for construction deals. Can you explain a little more. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 29
myscents wrote:
tmp70 what does all that mean are you saying investors money are not being lent out to actual companies for construction deals. Can you explain a little more. Thanks


Even if the loans are perfectly legitimate they still need to comply with securities laws. There is a whole list of laws including:

Full financial disclosure to investors
Periodic filings with the SEC
The firm selling the investments needs to be registered with FINRA
Any individual receiving a commission on the sale of the investment needs to be a registered representative.

http://www.finra.org/index.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:45 pm
Posts: 20
Prophet's explanation is precisely correct. Securities law violations typically accompany financial frauds because no disclosures are made as to where the money is really going and the financial credibility of the purported borrowers. As it is, Agape is all over the place as to whether they are a broker placing loans on an "investors" behalf or as principal. If they are acting as broker, then the investors should be seeing detailed financials on the true borrowers. I'm sure none have. And if Agape is principal, investors should be seeing detailed financials on Agape. I'm also sure that none have. This is what the securities laws cited are designed to insure occurs.


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:00 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:51 am
Posts: 1
I've been in the investment business for 20 years and I hear Agape is offering IRA rollovers now??? In 20 years I have never heard of a bridge loan as a permissible investment for an IRA account!!!! Beware they are trying to get you to rollover your hard earned IRA money now!!!! Does anyone know who the custodian is for these Agape IRAs?? Maybe it's Lehman Brothers!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:21 am
Posts: 2
"securities" are not what the average joe knows...research definition of "security" on finra.org...and also promissory note on finra.org...
"The official definition, from the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, is: "Any note, stock, treasury stock, bond, debenture, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement or in any oil, gas, or other mineral royalty or lease, any collateral trust certificate, preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share, investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit, for a security, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any interest therein or based on the value thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or in general, any instrument commonly known as a 'security'; or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing; but shall not include currency or any note, draft, bill of exchange, or banker's acceptance which has a maturity at the time of issuance of not exceeding nine months, exclusive of days of grace, or any renewal thereof the maturity of which is likewise limite

basically an unregistered (BARRED individual) is offering a security for sale and not through an ordinary brokerage firm and is relying on dummies to do word of mouth to solict investment in it...your money is NOT protected...this guy disappears and your money is GONE...

a normal broker/dealer that commits fraud comes under SIPC (sipc.org) and your money would most likely be insured...since this is an unregistered barred individual and an unregistered security offering you are screwed when it collapses...

unregistered offerings as noted in Reg D are not for the average joe...you have to be accredited and it can not be publicy sold...why is this being sold across state lines???

WAKE UP PEOPLE...IF IT IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE THEN IT ISNT...take your money and keep it SAFE!!!!!!!
good luck...you make criminals rich...


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:45 pm
Posts: 20
For those Agape "investors" who may be feeling somewhat smug that they have gotten paid out in previous years and have made substantial "profits", or are playing with "house" money, an article in today's Wall Street Journal at p. A16 entitled "Investor's May Have to Surrender Gains" should give considerable cause for concern. Discussing the Bayou Group LLC financial fraud case earlier this year in connection with the Madoff ponzi scheme, the authors note that "the federal bankruptcy court overseeing the Bayou case decided this year that investors who had pulled their money out of Bayou, in some cases before Bayou's fraud was detected, had to reach into their pockets to give back profits, and even some of their initial investments, to help offset losses by other investors who got snared in the scheme. The decision was based on a legal notion called fraudulent conveyance, which concerns the illegal transfer of property with the intent to commit fraud. . . 'It's the receiver's job to go back and collect as many assets as possible, from whatever sources, including investors who withdrew assets from the scheme -- whether those assets were characterized as principal or profit'. "


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 Post subject: Re: Agape World, Inc. -- Nicholas Cosmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:16 am
Posts: 7
Fact : WOW! No posts from Agape "investors", proponents or shills since the Madoff news

I am interested to hear comments from these people. The shills are probably busy right now helping Agape Rep trying to calm the investors and the investors are too busy trying to set up appointment with Nick Cosmo. :lol:


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