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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:06 am
Posts: 11
To clear up some confusion,
Quote:
Where did you say to wire the money too? I am curious about if you put the info as UK and then WU just rattled off the same info you gave them. Scammers do not typically work out of the UK as the UK will extradite to the US where Nigeria, Iran, and others will not so they like to know they will be safe from trouble.

I sent the money to Andrew Roven at the location of Wolverhampton UK. Unfortunately, there are tons of Western Union agent locations in Wolverhampton.


Quote:
As for a case against WU for not requiring a receipt, the scammer (just like a regular customer) would not need a copy of the receipt in order to pickup the wire transfer and would simply need the transfer #'s as it would not be convenient for a person waiting for the cash to wait for the receipt to come in the mail.


The scammer (in the guise of the company TNT) actually requested I scan and then email the WU receipt to him to complete the transfer. WU doesn't require such documentation for pickup, that's why I thought that request was a little odd. Specially b/c of the trouble some may have to go thru to physically scan a document and get it into email.

Quote:
As for you not being able to find any info on the scammers name online it may be possible that it is a new name, or it could be possible that other victims did not post their story on any websites.

Actually, I have found victims accounts of this exact same scam, using Craig's list in more than a half dozen cities (there are even 3 or 4 items currently posted that are from this scammer!!!) and the fake escrow service at http://www.tntengland.com (a hack of the official TNT site at http://www.tnt.com. In each of the instances i found on line, the service rep at TNT whose name is to be that of the receiver of the WU transfer is different. Nicole Card, Gerard Howell, Anthony Marshall, etc. (check out this link for more http://www.better-internet-bureau.org/d ... 2/301.html

As for attorneys in the family, I've got two-- my father already called me a 'dumb crap' for getting snagged in a scam. He is looking into this not for the reason of 'caring' but more for justice and stopping not only people but organizations from taking advantage of others and the system. He's an old time lawyer, (like Matlock since we're on the TV kick).

Thanks for the advice and encouragement, Shawn, on possibly bringing this angle back to life. I will try my best. Again, what is needed most is for people to come out and tell what they know. I'll leave you with a quote pulled directly from Western Union's web site

Quote:
Western Union takes the issue of consumer fraud very seriously. We value the consumers who
use our services and know that they work hard for their money. When consumers lose by
becoming victims of fraud, we feel like we lose too. That’s why we’re working to create greater
awareness of the various types of consumer fraud.


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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:50 am
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Location: WI
Mumbs,

I wish you the best in your pursuit of WU and the scammers. I am pretty sure WU doesn't check any form of ID anyways and all you need is the WU transfer #'s and answers to the secret question(s).


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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:09 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 171
Many scams are perpetrated from th UK, I have never seen a scammer extradited from the UK.

Any foreign country, that is far away is a great place to commit these scams from. Most of these scams are very minor felonies if not misdeamenors, no country, US included will pay the extradition costs for a very small crime, it does not make good financial sense.

That is the main reson these guys are never arrested, they fly below the radar, minor criminals.


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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:33 pm
Posts: 7
I posted a similar scam involving Western Union and MoneyGram. Thanks to this website, I knew it was a scam. This person sent me 3 money orders, which all were fake and wanted me to deposit them and transfer cash to Ghana. All the info he gave me was false. I googled the location, phone number and name given. It was nothing but a scam.


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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:50 am
Posts: 291
Location: WI
reverse wrote:
Many scams are perpetrated from th UK, I have never seen a scammer extradited from the UK.

Any foreign country, that is far away is a great place to commit these scams from. Most of these scams are very minor felonies if not misdeamenors, no country, US included will pay the extradition costs for a very small crime, it does not make good financial sense.

That is the main reson these guys are never arrested, they fly below the radar, minor criminals.


It's not so minor if they can prove that there are multiple victims for numbers sake lets say if you have 1000 people losing $300 a piece you have $300,000 in loses to the same scammer and I am sure the numbers could be higher. The reason nobody is ever arrested is it is dang near impossible to figure out who is committing the crimes since the IP's will come up to an internet cafe and all the scammer has to do is say prove I sent those emails.


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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:26 am 
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mumbs wrote:
I have found victims accounts of this exact same scam, using Craig's list in more than a half dozen cities (there are even 3 or 4 items currently posted that are from this scammer!!!)


Have you reported those posts to CL? I think that they have a "report this post" if you KNOW that the person is a scammer.

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Shawn Mosch
Co-Founder of http://ScamVictimsUnited.com
There is strength in numbers!

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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:38 pm 
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Posts: 11
Thanks, that's what I'm getting at RussellJ84!!! I'm not looking at the paltry $300 that I lost, but rather taking in the BIG PICTURE that there are dozens, maybe even hundreds of victims that fell for this scam. That would make it a rather large chunk of change that this scammer has amassed. I think one reason these people aren't caught is the fact that everybody looks at this scam and says just what I've been hearing, "under the radar", "not really that big of a crime", no way to catch him" etc, etc, etc. That is why I feel that if we can gather a bunch of people, bring those little $300 losses together to create a single, $10,000, even $100,000 voice, we can start to carry some weight. If not with the local or international law enforcement agencies, at least maybe with Western Union. Perhaps, we could then get some help. Perhaps Western Union would do something as simple as put an individuals name on a "hot list" or something. I don't know, and I'm not knocking the premise behind this site, that education is the best form of prevention. There is no doubt that is true. But I'm also looking at the other end of the spectrum, removing those factors of the scam that make it 'easy' to carry out. Having services such as Western Union have some accountability. Have web sites that get hacked and are having their identities used in a fraudulent manner also take a more proactive response. Again, I don't know the answers, but solving this is going to take time, cooperation and a LOT of persistence. I appreciate all those who've contributed to the effort thus far.

mumbs


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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 171
russellj84 wrote:
reverse wrote:
Many scams are perpetrated from th UK, I have never seen a scammer extradited from the UK.

Any foreign country, that is far away is a great place to commit these scams from. Most of these scams are very minor felonies if not misdeamenors, no country, US included will pay the extradition costs for a very small crime, it does not make good financial sense.

That is the main reson these guys are never arrested, they fly below the radar, minor criminals.


It's not so minor if they can prove that there are multiple victims for numbers sake lets say if you have 1000 people losing $300 a piece you have $300,000 in loses to the same scammer and I am sure the numbers could be higher. The reason nobody is ever arrested is it is dang near impossible to figure out who is committing the crimes since the IP's will come up to an internet cafe and all the scammer has to do is say prove I sent those emails.


Can you gather the people, get them to file in their jurisdictions, then coordinate all law enforcement from the different juridictions, then get them to work with overseas law enforcement?

Out of the different jurisdictions, who pays to fly the criminal back from England, who tries him first for a misdemenaor? Who tries him last?

Lots of questions, if you have never worked in Law Enforcement, many small things that may sound simple to you are not very easy to overcome in our system.

These small time scammers will never be stopped by law enforcement, they must be stopped by education.


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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:50 am
Posts: 291
Location: WI
reverse wrote:
russellj84 wrote:
reverse wrote:
Many scams are perpetrated from th UK, I have never seen a scammer extradited from the UK.

Any foreign country, that is far away is a great place to commit these scams from. Most of these scams are very minor felonies if not misdeamenors, no country, US included will pay the extradition costs for a very small crime, it does not make good financial sense.

That is the main reson these guys are never arrested, they fly below the radar, minor criminals.


It's not so minor if they can prove that there are multiple victims for numbers sake lets say if you have 1000 people losing $300 a piece you have $300,000 in loses to the same scammer and I am sure the numbers could be higher. The reason nobody is ever arrested is it is dang near impossible to figure out who is committing the crimes since the IP's will come up to an internet cafe and all the scammer has to do is say prove I sent those emails.


Can you gather the people, get them to file in their jurisdictions, then coordinate all law enforcement from the different juridictions, then get them to work with overseas law enforcement?

Out of the different jurisdictions, who pays to fly the criminal back from England, who tries him first for a misdemenaor? Who tries him last?

Lots of questions, if you have never worked in Law Enforcement, many small things that may sound simple to you are not very easy to overcome in our system.

These small time scammers will never be stopped by law enforcement, they must be stopped by education.


I didn't mean that anything would ever happen. I simply said the crime isn't so small when you look at the big picture. I know law enforcement agencies don't work together, heck most police departments in the same county won't work together to try and turn a misdemenaor into a felony. I also said that it would be impossible to track down the scammer since they use fake names, usually operate out of internet cafes, and probably use prepaid cells for when they do talk on the phone.


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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:02 am 
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Posts: 11
Reverse, your recent comment is obviously one of reason, however I'm not sure I intended my posts to necessarily focus on making this an all out international Law Enforcement operation. I know, even without working in Law Enforcement, how complex ANY type of cooperation can be among depts and specially countries. I NEVER assume anything to be "simple" as you put it. However, I can hardly say I agree with your

Quote:
These small time scammers will never be stopped by law enforcement, they must be stopped by education.


I don't think that is the right attitude to have or transmit -- first all, we don't know how 'small time' they are, as questioned in previous posts. Second, to say 'never' is really disheartening to people who've just been scammed or stolen from. I know in reality, chances are slim, but there are things that can be done to improve those odds -- increase your chances. Lastly, I agree education is a way of strangling this and other scammers. But I also agree that communication and cooperation among people such as those reading these posts are ALSO a way of combating such crimes. I'm not expecting a quick resolution such as a cooperative strike force barging into this guys house and catching him red-handed in the middle of a transaction. I suppose I'm prepared for the long haul on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 171
mumbs wrote:
Reverse, your recent comment is obviously one of reason, however I'm not sure I intended my posts to necessarily focus on making this an all out international Law Enforcement operation. I know, even without working in Law Enforcement, how complex ANY type of cooperation can be among depts and specially countries. I NEVER assume anything to be "simple" as you put it. However, I can hardly say I agree with your

Quote:
These small time scammers will never be stopped by law enforcement, they must be stopped by education.


I don't think that is the right attitude to have or transmit -- first all, we don't know how 'small time' they are, as questioned in previous posts. Second, to say 'never' is really disheartening to people who've just been scammed or stolen from. I know in reality, chances are slim, but there are things that can be done to improve those odds -- increase your chances. Lastly, I agree education is a way of strangling this and other scammers. But I also agree that communication and cooperation among people such as those reading these posts are ALSO a way of combating such crimes. I'm not expecting a quick resolution such as a cooperative strike force barging into this guys house and catching him red-handed in the middle of a transaction. I suppose I'm prepared for the long haul on this one.


I have worked catching financial scammers for the past 5 years, I am a bank investigator. I have spoken at NCUA sponsored events here in the South, I have my own fraud group of about 25 investigators from all the banks and credit unions in South Texas. Local fraud........counterfeiters, check fraud artists, bust out schemes, kiting.........I can and have stopped the majority of those in my area with the help of LE.

International crime is different, you nor anyone you know, can or will be able to stop the international fraudsters, this is the honest truth.

If I said one thing in this thread that I know is true, it is this. International will NEVER be stopped by law enforcement it will only be stopped by EDUCATION and INFORMATION. That is what this board is intended for I believe, I could be wrong.

You can have all the lawyers in the world in your family, nothing will be done.

I am going to leave this thread, I have said my piece. Good luck to all of you who think you can end fraud, you can only educate. Without victims, there will be no crime


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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:52 am 
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Posts: 11
Well, Reverse, I certainly didn't mean to offend you -- i hope your leaving this thread was not b/c of that. It seems with all the background and experience you listed you would be a great beneficial to this site. From your last post though, I guessing you're not feeling your knowledge is relalent in a thread titled "VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP. I'm not trying to dissuade people from educating themselves about scams and fraudulent activity, nor am I trying to raise false hopes.I just didn't feel there is anything wrong with those wanting to pursue additional angles (such as scrutinizing Western Union and their policies, which seems to have taken on a large portion of this post as well as been accociated with a large number of scams) and focusing on a particular scam and trying to crack it. That is MY purpose for this thread and I feel it does have a place on this site. Thanks for your comments Reverse. Realists such as yourself put dreamers such as me in prospective. Unfortunately, there will always be a line of poor idiots such as myself who didn't find this site and 'educate' himself before he was scammed.

And honestly, I'm not counting on family lawyers or anyone else in the law field to crack this scam or fraud in general. I will rely on them for help in educating people on what is and is not 'legal' on the part of those who are helping to make scams like this happen. We all know there will never be an end to fraud. It's kind of like putting an end to terrorism, can't happen.

I'm keeping this thread going -- still looking for people who have been caught by this particular scam -- or who were almost caught. Looking to compare notes and find similarities, etc.

Till then...


mumbs


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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 2921
Here is my two cents . . . I think that some of us who have been around this board or dealing with scams and fraud for years have learned from our battles that education will get us farther than a legal battle or trying to get law enforcement to work together.

mumbs, I am not going to "crush your dreams" . . . they were my dreams at one time also . . . but please understand that some of us see it as a long shot.

So maybe we all just agree to disagree on the issue of which is the better angle . . . legal or education . . . and continue to help the people out there.

_________________
Shawn Mosch
Co-Founder of http://ScamVictimsUnited.com
There is strength in numbers!

Share your story with the media and educate others about scams! Details here http://scamvictimsunited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=6319
Sign our petition http://www.change.org/actions/view/crea ... s_programs
Follow our blog http://scamvictimsunited.wordpress.com/
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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:54 am 
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Posts: 11
Shawn,

Thanks. I was trying to get across in my previous posts that I wasn't against education, I'm positive it is the BEST way to fight fraud. What I repeatedly tried to convey though (and looking back on all my posts I see I did repeatedly state) I'm also for finding new angles in addition to that. As you've said, people that have been on this board for a long time have learned a thing or two about what works and doesn't. I'm freshly victimized, new to the board and really, I never mentioned one angle to be better than another. I've obviously pissed people off by bringing something different to this site, and all the long time posters have already completely exhausted avenues such as polling victims that have been scammed by the same person in attempts to get some information. They've proven without a doubt that there is absolutely no way to catch one of these scammers, no matter how hard they try. And lastly, that the best thing that can be done is sit at their keyboard and retell how they got scammed and hope somebody Googles this site prior to making a 'foolish transaction' on the internet.

I guess I'm just a little disheartened by people insisting I'm making comparisons, people using words like "never" to me and people basically telling me don't bother when I'm ready to spend some time, do some legwork, make some overseas contacts, and basically be proactive.


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 Post subject: Re: VICTIM OF TNT/Craig's List/Western Union Scam?NEED YOUR HELP
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 2921
mumbs,
and what we (and now I am speaking for myself and the other posters who have been around for a while) were repeatedly trying to tell you is that yes, it would be GREAT if all of the things you want to happen could, but since we have seen the reality of things, we would tell you now that it has a snowball's chance in you know where of coming true. We have seen people exhaust themselves trying to go down that same road, only to come to a dead end and have all of their work, research, effort and hours of time be for nothing. We are just trying to let you know from our experience, you very well could run into a dead end, and we want to let you know that NOW before you invest a lot of time and energy into this.

Okay . . . that is officially it on the battle of which angle is better/can the legal angle work . . . I want this site to be about support, not about us "fighting" over which way is the right way to do things.

_________________
Shawn Mosch
Co-Founder of http://ScamVictimsUnited.com
There is strength in numbers!

Share your story with the media and educate others about scams! Details here http://scamvictimsunited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=6319
Sign our petition http://www.change.org/actions/view/crea ... s_programs
Follow our blog http://scamvictimsunited.wordpress.com/
Find us on Twitter, Facebook and more http://www.retaggr.com/page/ShawnMosch
_______________________________________________
Has this site helped you?
Buy us a coffee to say thanks ~ http://www.scamvictimsunited.com/donations.htm


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