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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:47 pm 
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Well, I'm new here. Only found this site tonight and I've signed up because I'm sad and a bit disillusioned and to add my tale to the rest. My story is only slightly different because I'm a guy and I am now pretty certain that I have been played by another guy - a Romanian. I met him, like pretty much everyone else, on an online site. It was a live chat site and although I started speaking to him because I was attracted to him, we never actually DID anything...we just chatted and I really liked him. Same old pattern followed as most of the other stories here; we chatted pretty regularly on the site, then I told him that I couldn't really afford to keep chatting on there and he asked if I had Yahoo Messenger. I didn't but I set it up so I could chat to him there. It was fun and he made me feel good about myself. I don't have any close friends and he was the closest thing I'd had to one for a long time. He has never said that he loves me and I have never said that to him either, we were just good friends. Our relationship was just fun and light with a bit of mild flirting thrown in and I enjoyed it. He said that he wanted me to know all about him because he didn't just view me as a virtual friend but as a real friend, just far away!

He told me lots of stuff about himself and I believe that the majority of it is true. I found his facebook page and references to him on other sites and it all ties up. He has never asked me for money BUT about six weeks ago, he lost his job at his old studio and had to start at another. He said that his old boss would not pay him the wages he was due because he had found out that he was going to move studios and so fired him. He was worried about his rent and electricity bill. As I say, he did not ask me for money but because it never even occurred to me (stupidly) that I was being played and I felt sorry for him, I offered to send him some money to tide him over. I sent about £70.00.

About two weeks later, it was coming up to his 21st birthday and I thought I might send him a gift. He forestalled this by telling me in one of our chats, that his salary was going to be delayed by a month due to 'administrative problems'. Again, he was worried about the bills. Again, he did not ask me for any help. I must admit that alarm bells started ringing then but I had already decided that I would send him some money for his birthday and so I offered to send it early, to help out. He said he felt bad about accepting it but he did and I sent £50.00. Both times through Moneygram and both times he would have had to use his ID to collect the money. As I say, I have no doubt that he is who he says he is!

So, a few days ago he tells me that he is worried because he has a mole/growth on his back and he has been to the doctor who wants to remove it asap as it may be carcinogenic. He says it has grown rapidly in the last couple of weeks. He sent me a photo of the mole! Because he has no health insurance and no work papers, he said that it would cost around 500 euros to remove the growth and associated medication and follow ups. He said he was worried about delaying the procedure but had no choice as he could not afford to have it done. This time I did not offer to help. I was starting to get wary. I did do a webcam chat with him and he showed me the growth on his back live on the webcam and it did look pretty nasty but I have no idea what it really was or how long it might have been there. I had never seen his back before! A couple of days later, he told me that he had borrowed money from his boss to have the growth removed and that he would be going to the hospital today to have it done.

Tonight he contacted me on messenger to say that he has been told the growth is cancerous and there is a real danger that it might spread. They want to take him into hospital immediately to operate as every day's delay could be dangerous. He tells me that this will cost around 1000 euros, which of course he does not have. He tells me that he has managed to borrow about 500 euros from friends and family, that his credit cards are maxed out and still no salary due until end of next week. Again, he did not ask me for money but I felt the suggestion hanging on the air. I spent ages wondering what to say to him and then I looked up some things on Google and found this site and this thread. I just feel very sad (and stupid obviously) because I really liked him and did believe (naively) that it was a genuine thing, that we really were becoming good friends. Of course, because it is still very fresh, I can't help wondering if I am judging him harshly. If he really were ill, I would feel terrible for not helping. I could afford to send him what he needs and if I could be absolutely sure that it was genuine, I probably would BUT I know that he is probably now trying to scam me and it's very upsetting. I suppose the good thing is that so far, he has only had £120.00 from me.

Of course, now that I have read this thread, and others, I can see a familiar pattern. I have also been checking on the Romanian healthcare system but I'm not 100% sure I've got it right. He says that he's a student so, as far as I can see, he should be entitled to free emergency healthcare regardless of whether or not he has health insurance and work papers but...I don't know if thats right for sure. I do know that there's a lot of corruption within the system but...who knows? I know that he hasn't been to work for a couple of days because he last signed in two days ago (i can check that) and he hasn't updated his facebook page for 5 days. That COULD all tie up with a genuine medical emergency...you see, I'm still trying to give him the benefit of the doubt!!

Anyway, I left it that I couldn't help him this time and that I'd talk to him later. I suppose that now I ought to close down the YM account and block him from my e-mail address. He doesn't have my phone numbers or my address. It's just really sad. Anyway, thought I'd share. It's my own stupid fault I know. These people must be able to sniff out the lonely and trusting very easily. Thanks for listening.


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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:01 pm 
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I feel you and I here you I have to say that at this point I feel that I have been scam by some one to from the country of Romaina. He is a guy and I happen to be gay and he say that he is to we been talking over the internet for over 4 years now I have been sending hem money every month for the past 4 years to help hem pay his rent because he stated to me that he was in school which I now believe has been a lie all this time . He say he loves me it rally hurts to think that he has been useing me all this time my heart is hurting so bad I talked to lawyers but it as if they have no care about all the money that I have been out of over the years I have been send a total of about $60,000 over 4 years to this prson whom say that he will come over here soon is it all a scam are what i just do not understand are know what to do I feel so bad and used. What I can say is this I have there name and phone number and I also have a address for them. But one thing that does add up is when I send moeny he does nto answer the phone for days are every cuts his phone off then he will tell me thing like I was resting you know im in school this what he says. You know what even after two years he started to say that we are married husband and husband. You I believe hem what can I have lost so much money and time out of my life, I believe that i was scam but you know what i love this person with all my heart , i wanted to spend the rest of my life with them now I called this person this week and i was told by hem that he lift the country of Romaina and move to italy ,and that i should start my life over i been crying for the last 4 days it hurts so bad in side to have some one that say there your husband and that they wanted to be with you soon to tell you that. He finshed college last week he stated and that he was going to italy to stay with his mom Im so hurt its like some one has taken my heart out. I do understand that this pain will pass with time I still love hem I hope that the help that i gave hem really help hem to be a better prerson just maybee one day i will see hem face to face . Now when I call the phone goes strat to voice mail i will keep call just maybee he will answer that is my hope .


Last edited by topfight22 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:36 pm
Posts: 3
I'm so sorry topfight. My main consolation is that I have lost very little, thank goodness, and that I had not lost my heart to this guy either. Your situation sounds much worse than mine and you have my sympathy. These people are obviously experts at detecting all the signs that someone will be open to their deception. They are clever and weave a fantasy that we are all too willing to believe. The thing that saddens me most with my experience was that I was stupid enough to be flattered by all the nice things he said to me, things I very seldom hear and now (that I realise they were all lies) I feel probably worse about myself than I did before I met him (and I didn't feel good about myself THEN!!)

Latest update on my guy...I did a little snooping on Facebook and although he has been clever enough not to update his own page (except briefly to sign up to Facebook on iPhone...where did he find the money to buy an iPhone I wonder when he so desperately needs it for medical treatment...) his friends have not been so careful! One of them reports a 3 day trip to a beach club near Constanta with two others - including my guy!! Even better, another friend (a girl this time) was also on this trip and on her Facebook page, there are many photos with my guy and her profile says that she is married to him!! My guy, of course, insisted to me that he was single and not interested in dating just now :lol:

He messaged me tonight to let me know he was OK and just out of hospital. Luckily, he was able to borrow the money he needed for his treatment from his friend (interestingly the one he has just been partying with). You know, it's ALMOST funny. I'm tempted to let it play out for a bit yet and watch the lies build up!


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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:44 pm
Posts: 1
Hello All,
I did just type a whole book about Romania and what it's like but got timed out so i'm not doing it again. Firstly I want to express my sadness to all the people who have been scammed by these leeches. I have a Romanian wife and have been married for nearly ten years. No problems with money or scams here. They wouldn't get away with it I can tell you that for sure. For those seeking love online half way around the world let me say this IT DOESN'T WORK! Romania today is a country based on image with many of it's younger generation working in places such as Italy, Spain and England. A typical city centre like Bucharest, Cluj and Arad is full of top of the range Audi's, Mercs and BMW's all with Italian number plates and all on hire purchase for 300 Euro's per month and every pretty girl dressed in Dolce & Gabbana are looking for the men in these cars only to be disapointed when they return to his apartment and discover another 5 guys living there all eating Borsch "soup" to pay for their top of the range Audi. Like any country abroad if you want trouble then it's there for you. Never had a problem myself with any of them but I'm not the sort to go out drinking all night even though a can of soda is more expensive than a whole ltr or beer. That say's something in itself. Take my advice and delete all your dating website accounts and switch off that Iphone or Ipad and go out and talk to people. If you visit Romania never discuss money or deal with anyone that mentions it. Cut them off ASAP and go on your way. Not everyone is bad or has bad intentions but keep in the back of you mind you are in a country where the average monthly wage is 100 Euro's and a pair of new shoes are a 110. Just remember what the who said "We won't get fooled again".


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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Showaddywaddy77, thank you for posting.

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Google is your best online friend. Google everything.
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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:12 pm 
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What can I do how can i find out the truth about this person that i been helping for 5 years can any one help me with this he still asking for more money


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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:42 am 
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Topfight, I'm not sure that there is much you CAN do! There are probably others on here who can advise on any kind of legal action you may be able to take BUT one thing you MUST do is drop him immediately! It will be difficult because you have feelings for him but he is using you and it has to stop. You have to block his e-mails and block his phone number and ignore him from now on. I have finally done this with my guy and, I have to say, I feel a lot better for it! I have even uninstalled Yahoo Messenger to stop him contacting me on there.

There were more lies of course. I asked about his new iphone and he told me it was a birthday present from his work colleagues!! A £500 phone? A present from colleagues who are all as badly off as him apparently - really? I found out he had a new car. When I asked him about that he told me he had borrowed the money from the bank! Its a shame that he didn't ask them for the money he needed for his urgent medical treatment lol! Then there was no food in his fridge because his Mom took it all to his grandfather's to help with the grape harvest - could I lend him some money until he got paid!! Really, you couldn't make it up - well maybe HE could! The latest lie was that he had been dumped by his girlfriend (the one he never admitted to having) because he was 'no longer good enough for her'. Sadly, her Facebook page tells a very different story and there are comments from him on there that prove he is all loved up!

I'm afraid your guy is exactly the same Topfight and you have to get him out of your life and move on. It will be extremely difficult for you but you have to do it and you WILL come out the other side. I don't know if you have any chance of getting back the money you've lost, you may have to accept that its gone BUT you must end it now regardless. I wish you all the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:56 pm
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I don't frequent these sites. I have no problem or issue with them, they just never caught my fancy. In either case I bounced around from room to room until I found a woman who appeared to just be chatting with the members. I guess you could say I was shy? when it came to all the tipping and private stuff, I like to actually be with the woman

So I started chatting with her and as people left the room we kept chatting, She was from Eastern Europe and spoke english well. From what I have gathered from the forums on the internet I know now she is not a studio model and she wasn't shaking me down for credits. She was older and really appeared genuine in her conversation. We covered all sorts of topics and not once did we bring up der gender. It was more than I think I was ready for, we chatted for about a week on and off and yes I did in fact give her the 200 toks that were given upon me signing up. Eventually we were chatting one night and she mentioned that she didn't like this kind of work and wanted to go back to what she did before. We talked more that night and before she logged off I asked her if she wanted to keep chatting even after she left the site, seeing as how thats most of what we did on there. She said yes and we exchanged info over an iphone app, which i realized a step too late uses your actual phone number. I wasn't worried, phonebooks have been around for decades, let alone what people can find about you on the internet. So we chatted on and off for the past month, stupid stuff, serious stuff, all kinds of stuff. At this point I wasn't in love with her, I just liked having someone completely new to chat with.

This is where it gets hairy, towards the end of the month she was talking a lot about rent, which I totally understand. Part of me somewhere along the road felt bad for not tipping her, while the other part was worried she would only talk to me because I was paying her to. NOTE: I understand models are working at a job, but no one was ever really in her room and she stayed anyways. What I thought was the gentleman in me decided to start tipping her on a regular basis. A few weeks passed and I started getting one word responses and sometimes none at all. Soon after that she only sent messages when she was online, which changed daily now. Now I just get hi messages which I am guessing I am to take as Hi (IM ONLINE) I understand that she is working, and that I started a cycle of tipping her, but It hurts to think that I was a long con. I really don't know how to proceed, I thought (naive as it may sound) we were becoming friends. I now have a sinking and overwhelming feeling that I am just a big fat $$ to her. I had told her in regular conversations that I am not currently employed (school) which makes feeding myself interesting some nights. She always makes sure to tell me that I help her and that she is grateful to have my support (of whether the emotional or monetary I will let you decide)

Now recently she has mentioned that she has to move and could not afford all of the rent. I approached the topic cautiously as I have read the tales of woe from offering to pay rent and what not. Up to this point she has my phone # and my address (sent a gift) but I have not sent money directly. She has not demonstrated any "extra" qualities that would entice me to pay for the rent eg I love you lets be together. She appears just as she always has, a woman who sees money as a freedom. Maybe she is waiting it out, maybe she found another member to pay it for her, and maybe I'm just cynical and she as a friend was talking about issues that real friends talk about. She Never asked for the money, at least not directly. I'm not going to send her money, I am happy to keep buying credits (Not enough to break the bank) and keep chatting with her.

that felt really good to type, please read and say what you will. It can be anything worse than i have told myself already.


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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:46 pm 
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I here every thing that has been stated, but I love hem we had plans to be together it hurts its so easy to say stop calling change your number but can you all really feel my pain over 4 years of being lied to no one understand it hurts so bad its like my world has ended how can I move on! becuase I closed the door to all my famliy, and freinds for a lifestyle that half of the world looks down on yal feel me. Who can I go to I really just want be left along to think about this I love hem so much what next for my broken heart. This is real talk, we talked on the phone every day for 4 years how can I find some balance now. Some time the truth is better left out, if it cause great harm to people that what has happen! there's a open wound in my heart how can i find some balance for this broken heart all the "book information" is good but walk a day in my shoes then you will feel my pain its not about the money, its about the trust can yal feel me ! I share my feeling in hopes that some one will be help ! this game is though some say charge it off how can I charge off my broken heart its going to take years to find the balance in my life to trust any one yes I understand that I share in the blame but it should be laws in place to stop people from ( raping ) yal feel me im not taking about physically rape im talking about being emotionally raped yal feel.


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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:22 pm 
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Quote:
that felt really good to type, please read and say what you will. It can be anything worse than i have told myself already.

Sounds like you already know what you want to do. Just be careful. Best of luck to you.

topfight22, please find someone in person who you trust and who you can talk with. You might want to talk to a therapist. You will be in my thoughs and prayers. Best of luck to you.

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Media Reporter for ScamVictimsUnited.com

Google is your best online friend. Google everything.
http://www.google.com/

For Romance Love scams
http://romancelovescams.mysubdn.com/forum/index.php


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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:40 pm 
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People, people, people....for the love of Jesus - STOP sending money to Romania. Just stop! The "love of your life" is scamming you! He or she is not in grinding poverty. There is a national healthcare system that is free. Tuition is not high here and is quite affordable for anyone with even a minimum wage job. He or she just wants to feign love for the luxuries of life, not the necessities. This is not about having food, this is about eating in fancy restaurants! As religious as this country claims to be it is a national sport to lie to foreigners to get them to send money. I hear them all the time laughing and comparing notes on how they got some fool to think she - it is usually a she - is in love with him and how much she is taking him for monthly. NOBODY who can afford internet access is starving! Oh, but they are using the internet access of the videochat business. Even worse! Those girls earn hundreds of euros a month just from chat shows (I have seen the ads and have an inside informant with one of the studios here), but greed and laziness make them want more and more and more. Almost all of the time, your lonely, downtrodden sweetheart has a boyfriend or husband that is well aware of his girlfriend's or wife's videochat and scamming activity and the boyfriend or husband has a pimp-attitude that encourages his woman to take maximum advantage of fools willing to send money for nothing really. The love of your life just want the high life and will use you and the other string of fools she has thinking she loves to provide her with the finer things in life. Again, you are hearing it fron a guy that has been down that road twice.

Let me say it again: STOP SENDING MONEY TO ROMANIAN WOMEN!!! JUST STOP! CUT YOUR LOSSES; MEND YOUR BROKEN HEART; LEARN YOUR LESSON.


Showaddywaddy77 wrote:
Hello All,
I did just type a whole book about Romania and what it's like but got timed out so i'm not doing it again. Firstly I want to express my sadness to all the people who have been scammed by these leeches. I have a Romanian wife and have been married for nearly ten years. No problems with money or scams here. They wouldn't get away with it I can tell you that for sure. For those seeking love online half way around the world let me say this IT DOESN'T WORK! Romania today is a country based on image with many of it's younger generation working in places such as Italy, Spain and England. A typical city centre like Bucharest, Cluj and Arad is full of top of the range Audi's, Mercs and BMW's all with Italian number plates and all on hire purchase for 300 Euro's per month and every pretty girl dressed in Dolce & Gabbana are looking for the men in these cars only to be disapointed when they return to his apartment and discover another 5 guys living there all eating Borsch "soup" to pay for their top of the range Audi. Like any country abroad if you want trouble then it's there for you. Never had a problem myself with any of them but I'm not the sort to go out drinking all night even though a can of soda is more expensive than a whole ltr or beer. That say's something in itself. Take my advice and delete all your dating website accounts and switch off that Iphone or Ipad and go out and talk to people. If you visit Romania never discuss money or deal with anyone that mentions it. Cut them off ASAP and go on your way. Not everyone is bad or has bad intentions but keep in the back of you mind you are in a country where the average monthly wage is 100 Euro's and a pair of new shoes are a 110. Just remember what the who said "We won't get fooled again".


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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:12 am
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Hi I've only just found this site and thought I would post for a little advice.

I met a girl of all places on a live chat website which was the first thing that made me think things might not be real but at the time I had no intention of even thinking things could happen between us.

I sent her a large tip to which she was surprised at and we got talking, exchanged yahoo and skype details and talked and talked. Admittedly I have sent money to her for a few bits and pieces here and there but she has never asked for them and they were for luxury things as apposed to necessities, she has never claimed poverty I've just been over kind I guess.

We talk a lot on the phone and by text message as well as on skype, even when she is working on her live chat site she has skype open and has the cam open with me so even if she enters into a pvt chat with someone I can still see her. She tells me she really likes me and all that stuff. I've sent her flowers before so know her real address, and have also seen her Romanian ID card so know she is who she says she is as well as her age etc. She has an iPhone and I was helping her with something on her apple account so slyly logged into to Find My Iphone to make sure the address she gave me was real and it is, it's not a friend who collects something for her.

We plan to meet up in the summer of next year on the basis we want to get to know each other better and also I don't actually have any annual leave until April onwards anyhow. Everything seems legit but she could just be an exremely good actor but if that is the case she is investing a LOT of time in me for little return other than the odd thing here and there. She has sent me a Christmas present (just a modest thing she admits, a small gift as well as a few personal items of hers for me to hold onto) which I should receive next week. She regularly sends me photos through iMessage of her day as I do with her.

As I've said, things SEEM legit but I thought I would get any potential flaws or points of advice to take on board, things to watch for that I might not have seen?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:32 pm 
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You are the goose with the golden eggs. She does not even need to ask and you deliver.

Have you read this thread at all?

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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:39 pm 
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Hi I've only just found this site and thought I would post for a little advice.

I met a girl of all places on a live chat website which was the first thing that made me think things might not be real but at the time I had no intention of even thinking things could happen between us.

I sent her a large tip to which she was surprised at and we got talking, exchanged yahoo and skype details and talked and talked. Admittedly I have sent money to her for a few bits and pieces here and there but she has never asked for them and they were for luxury things as apposed to necessities, she has never claimed poverty I've just been over kind I guess.

We talk a lot on the phone and by text message as well as on skype, even when she is working on her live chat site she has skype open and has the cam open with me so even if she enters into a pvt chat with someone I can still see her. She tells me she really likes me and all that stuff. I've sent her flowers before so know her real address, and have also seen her Romanian ID card so know she is who she says she is as well as her age etc. She has an iPhone and I was helping her with something on her apple account so slyly logged into to Find My Iphone to make sure the address she gave me was real and it is, it's not a friend who collects something for her.


stop sending her money and see what happens ,if she starts asking it is not a good sign....she seems ok ,but you never know

We plan to meet up in the summer of next year on the basis we want to get to know each other better and also I don't actually have any annual leave until April onwards anyhow. Everything seems legit but she could just be an exremely good actor but if that is the case she is investing a LOT of time in me for little return other than the odd thing here and there. She has sent me a Christmas present (just a modest thing she admits, a small gift as well as a few personal items of hers for me to hold onto) which I should receive next week. She regularly sends me photos through iMessage of her day as I do with her.

As I've said, things SEEM legit but I thought I would get any potential flaws or points of advice to take on board, things to watch for that I might not have seen?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Romanian Dating Scams - Have you been burnt?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:02 am 
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You wouldn't believe the lengths that girls will go to in Romania to make a buck.

This type of gaming is often their only means of income so do not under-estimate the amount of effort they will put into convincing you that you are NOT being scammed.

I have lived in Romania for much of the last year and the best way to determine if the person is a scammer is to

1. Visit them. See them in-situ - in their daily life. Look for signs that they excluding you from part of their life. Go and visit as soon as possible after you strike up a relationship.

2. Stop giving them money / presents or gifts. For a while at least and see how they react. Suggest that you may lose you job. Stop paying for online sessions. As a test say that you have an old laptop that you want to get rid of (or say that you bought a new one) and leave it hanging in the air. See if she ever refers back to that.

3. Watch for girls with a taste for (or in possession of) things which are obviously above (outside) of their income bracket. What do they consider to be a large amount of money? Women who play these sorts of games have "heard it all before" and their perspective on money / income has been skewed away from that of someone who lives within the means of a normal job in Romania. Likewise where do they like to go out? Is it exclusively to the upmarket bars / clubs around Bucharest (or whichever town BUT esp. Bucharest). Do they have an recent iPhone for example. Do they have an issue with you spending a lot of money on a night out (with or without them)?

4. Get them to express their opinion on a moral dilemma involving exploitation. This is probably the most telling one of all. I have found that even though many of them understand the question of morality in a broad intellectual sense that as they do not really hold these values they are unable to convincingly offer much in the way of self-generated opinion about it. Do not ask directly. Just tell a tale / scenario and leave it hanging in the air. Compare their responses to that to other non-morality driven topics. Also their opinion of Romania should be driven from a sense of moral outrage at the objective injustice rather than from a sense of personal entitlement. i.e. "Life in Romania is hard because I don't get paid enough" is very different to a statement which doesn't centre on the "me". Do they ever use the word "smart" admiringly (in Romanian, English or "Ringlish") to refer to something that we would consider "dishonest". If she is a camgirl ask her what the costs of caming to her are - in terms of her life / character etc. Discuss it in depth. If she doesnt bring up the issue of it enabling crimes of "moral turpitude" DUMP HER.

5. Does she prematurely (or just overmuch if her english is not good) refer to you as "babe", "darling", "sweetie" or any other sex-industry type nomenclature?

6. Does she know how Western Union works? Is she able to explain it to you? If you ever send money - offer to send it to her bank account and her bank account ONLY. When you go to Romania go to her branch to carry out some transactions including potentially opening an account. Ask her to explain to you the process of opening an account at HER branch. She will not expect you to do this. Do not pre-warn her. Only do this when you are in Romania and do so without warning.

7. Are they able to say what they actually want in life (near, mid, long). If it is simply to have a family / home or they are unable to answer it is a bad sign. Not being able to answer is because they are very much focused on the here and now (or are unable to tell you). Having a family / home is a cop out answer. A girl who is a student (graduate) for example should be able to elucidate what she is going to do (or in light of the lack of opportunities) what she would like to do if the economy in Romania was better. Those that are making a lot of money (scamming) and / or are really in a relationship cannot tell you their plans.. They have to make something up and make it sound good - to impress you - but not too good. That's a narrow margin and why it is often easier to say nothing or default to stock answers.

8. Full disclosure. Does she (in time) fully disclose her name, address, telephone, email etc and are these really her true primary ones. Tied up with "1" above. Does she have >1 phone (number)? Which number do you have? How many email accounts does she have on both? These girls do not want to give their true details to a growing list of soon to be fake-exes. Do not fully trust in what you see on Facebook, Myspace etc etc. Does she have a linked in profile. Are her places of work verifiable?

9. Watch out for the unnecessary inclusion of friends (esp. brothers / male-cousins) in your dealings (be they male or female). When you meet her for the first time meet her alone. If she asks to bring someone it is a major red-flag. Meet her somewhere public. Like in one of the large shopping malls. Or somwehere secure (guards) but not plesant for a scammer like the restaurant in a major hotel (Hilton). Her familiarity /ease with her surroudings / protocol at the hotel should be noted. There are also cameras there which she will be aware of and only possibly wary of if this is part of his regular / past stomping ground. The security guards being local can also be a source of hints.

10. Ask for their opinions on Romania. If their position is unbalanced (be it auto-defensive or excessively denigrating) take care. If they endlessly criticise Romania then you need to wonder why they are there. Boyfriend perhaps? Husband? Does additional scammed income allow them actually to live quite well in Romania. Better than they would if they had to start again in another country. Offer to help find them a job. Ask them for a copy of their CV.

11. Do not fully trust private detectives. In Romania they are just as capable of going to her and asking for a supplementary-fee to play double agent as working for you.

12. A sign that she is multi-tasking is that as you are a single stream of work, in a larger job once your relationship has settled it will switched it into maintenance mode. Once there you will find that you often cannot get her directly on the phone or for example generally that it seems that your interactions have a sense of having a formal allocated place / time rather than flowing chaotically which is more often then not the case in a the real / offline / non-virtual world relationship. Do not listen to excuses about online caming (etc if she is a camgirl) being at fault. This pattern is more often than not a sign that she is busy with someone/something else... Like her real life or another customer.

--

I should stress again that the girls are very sly. They often have more than one guy on the go and have become very skilled at building what they like to term "fake romances". Don't think for example that because she acts like she doesn't understand IT that she truly doesn't. Girls might allow you to log into their accounts or their phones fully aware of the fact that you might use it to try and spy on them.

The online girls get coached on how to build fake-relationships.. The fact that Romania is a generally duplicitous / non-direct society means that they can harness these lifelong skills to become skilled in online manipulation in a short period of time.

The most important rule is that you do NOT fall into the trap of projecting your reality and worldview onto them. Yes.. They can play the long-game.. Far longer than you think because you are often just one of a crop that they are developing. Yes they can show you ID.. It could be fake / stolen. Yes they may never ask for anything. They will wait for you to offer. The type of innocent facade, which in the West is typically indicative of a certain type of person, in Romania is often paired with (in our terms) a completely different internal monologue.

I should stress that of the above points in isolation is proof that she is a scammer or lying but they can help in establishing a pattern.

#4 is the test that I find that despite all their guile they find hard to answer and I think (as I said above) they really do not understand the internally consequences of taking a moral position AND have little way of expressing it.

Most of all do NOT ignore any warning signs. The problem is that the scammee often ignores warnings because he ultimately likes the person and would rather exist in a fake relationship with them than in a real world without them. Testing the person can often expose the scam ahead of time but as a consequence result in you being alone again.

That is the fear.

Everyone (the "young" anyway) in Romania is aware of the trust issues locally. They will fully understand why you might not seem to immediately trust them.

Just google or ask anyone about the "fake guests" phenomenon in downtown discos in Bucharest. That will give you an indication of just how widespread, accepted and subtle the manipulation can be there.

I know it is not easy for those further afield but for me this distance is one of the primary reasons for both the incidence and severity of the kind of exploitation detailed within this thread.


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